Amen Brother! Peace to you and your family.

My husband and I were just discussing your integrity earlier this afternoon. It’s quite beautiful to see and we wish you the best in your journey.

Stay close with your wife
and your kids

Keep strong boundaries

And remember that Jesus took time away from those who were hungry and thirsty and sick to pray and become refreshed and renewed.

God bless and keep you.

Chad, I have been following your story for a couple of days. Somehow struck by this story and your own response. As I read this piece, I am so glad to have stumbled across your path somehow. This is a very human, warm and, in the end, Christian outlook. When in our current environment, men are usually seen screaming nonsense or fighting or “holding the line, ” it is so great to read of someone who thinks more before he speaks. I know that this has got to be quite an experience for you. I sense you have many, many supportive, honest people around you. They will keep you humble. They will love you. They will endure you. They will draw you close. oh, and sorry about Duke.
Lonnie

Chad,

I’ve always enjoyed your posts, even if I didn’t agree with them 100%… I like to be stretched and provoked in ways that help me grow IN Christ, I believe we do this as we dialogue about things, and keep that dialogue open. In regards to your moving on, I think you stated it beautifully… this was best for everyone involved! Firing or not, you should have moved on because you and the majority of your people were headed in different directions! Bravo for your stance on things in this post!

As for the heaven vs. hell thing… I think its really important to keep something Bell has said in perspective… maybe traditions held by most evangelicals about heaven and hell are worth raising questions over, and maybe things need to be re-worded in our evangelism hand books… BUT the main thing to remember about all of this stuff in regards to Hell and what happens when we die… the best we all have is speculation based on small amounts of biblical evidence. Maybe your right, maybe Bell is right, maybe Driscoll is right… and maybe just maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle! May we all come to realize that if we ARRIVE at an answer that can’t be questioned… we have lost the Lutheran example of why we are protestants… “Always Be Reforming”.

PS… Good luck in the future with GMA, Oprah, and Church Planting : )

Peace
Tony

When the storm dies down could you please give me a call. I want to chat about some of our previous discussions and “other” things.

You’ve been a great internet friend these last several years and want to catch up. Plus you still owe me a cup of coffee and a Duke game. You’ll be much closer in Tennessee.

Blessings Friend!

Chris

I love this post. Honestly, I would have wanted to know you, regardless of the divorce from that church, had I known you and I were of like mind on the Rob Bell issue. I don’t know many who share my position and thoughts and it seems like you really think through your responses to things from what I’ve read that you’ve written.

Also I wanted to thank you. Your response to the situation God has brought you through has helped me reconcile a sort of similar, still somewhat raw situation in my own life. On January 1,2011 my husband Micah and I were going on two years pastoring an open and affirming non denominational church in Fayetteville, NC. When we took over the pastorate, the church was “dying.” There were a handful of attendees, all older lesbians, mostly white. In the year and some odd months we were there, God allowed the church to move forward in AWESOME ways. We had a clothes pantry which gave clothing, food, and direction for monetary resources as well as help with resumes and finding a job to those in the community in need. We also provided Christmas presents for over 100 children in need. We had a Thanksgiving meal to help the homeless in the community, had several active members who were homeless, several with disabilities, etc etc. It was awesome. It was what I thought was ALWAYS God’s dream for a church….such diversity, such love.
January 2 the bomb was dropped on us and we were asked for a divorce as well. We were told the church didn’t want to go in the directions we were leading it. They didn’t want the types of people coming in who were coming in, or weren’t ready for that. It was heart-wrenching, I won’t try to say otherwise. Mostly I was numb the first few days. We’d thought things were great. We were so excited for another year.

Several things you’ve said in this post really made me think; first, I LOVE the analogy of the divorce. Fired doesn’t really speak to the reality of a situation between a pastor and a congregation. The picture of a divorce just puts it so well.

Also, when you said that the church just wasn’t ready to go where you were going and that you couldn’t give them what they wanted, that really resonated with me. I’d had somebody else say something similar a month or so ago but it didn’t sink in. It’s true, though. Even when I had people asking if I wanted to have a story in the paper or on the news, I kept saying no because even though it was a painful situation and even though it looked to outside observers like the people who made the decision the church didn’t want us as pastors anymore were the bad guys, I didn’t want it looked at that way. I struggled in my weakest moments against looking at it like that in my own anger, but it always passed quickly when I realized that they, like myself, are broken people trying the only way they know how to do what God has called them to do. What they said to us that sounded like a “no, we aren’t going to do this as a church because it’s making the members feel unsafe” could actually have been a “we’re not ready for this as a church yet. We don’t need to go in this direction until we have healed some other issues that we can build on to get to this point.
Anyway, I know I’m rambling, but I just wanted to say thanks. I know too well that you’re not a victim and that the congregation aren’t villains. I also know, though, that it’s not a fun thing to have to deal with. God’s got HUGE plans for you, that is clear. I hope we can get to know one another as I’d love to hear what He continues to do to work through your life.

“People of the world don’t look at themselves, and so they blame one another.” – Rumi

Chad,

Thank you for your thoughts about what has transpired these past few days. As one who has had to move on from a church, I’m more than sympathetic. I’ve been there, and my Regional Minister was very supportive. I was concerned about how your DS was quoted and wondered why things happened as they did. I am glad that he was with you through this. You are right, in many ways this is like a divorce — except there is no joint custody of the children. You have to give up all custody rights when you move on, which can be very difficult for those left behind and those moving on.

I look forward to seeing where your journey leads.

Blessings,

Bob

Well said, Pastor. As a minister who has gone through my own painful split with a congregation, I couldn’t have said any of this better myself.

The more I learn about you, the more I like you Chad. This was a fantastic piece of writing considering all that is happening. If interrupted prayer leads you to such clear-mindedness, I can only imagine what you’ll be able to do for God when everything calms down. Godspeed.

Thank you Pastor Chad for taking the bite off perceptions I’d developed toward your former church. Now my prayers will be for their healing as well and that this separation does not splinter the congregation, as splits between the shepherd and flock are prone to do.
My own church has gone through strife over the past 25+ years. People and pastors have come and gone for various reasons. I’ve stayed because the body of Christ, the church, has remained there to be re-nourished by new sheepand new pastors. May your next duty assignment from GOD take you and your family to a welcoming and appreciative new home.

Back in the 80s I was a UM probationary pastor for 8 years. In my fourth year at my second appointment my congregation decided they wanted a “divorce.” So did my DS and my conference. I went and took a paid position with a UM church as their education director part time. I also took a part time job with the local school district to head up their before and after school child care program. After a year of doing that I realized that I was doing more ministry with the families in the school district job than I was in the church job. At that point, I surrendered my credentials and went into full-time child care work.God still has a ministry for you, it just may not be the one that you started out with. Once we hear God’s call to minister to his flock no one can take it away from us, even if they can take away the piece of paper that says they give us permission to minister in their church buildings and in the way they tell us to minister. God’s blessings on you and your family for standing true to your faith in God and in His calling to you for your life.

I thank you for your honesty and your integrity in this situation. I asked you to “friend” me not because of the controversy, but because I read several of your blog articles and resonate with what you have said. I tend to a small flock of seekers and you have given me inspiration to continue. I am sure that you will have a long and rewarding career in the ministry.

Chad,

Great post. I admire the theological maturity you have shown throughout this entire situation. However, I must tell you that I am deeply troubled by the fact that there was an agreement between you and the congregation not to post an controversial issues. As a UM Elder I don’t think the local church or the UMC has the authority to censor what someone posts on a PERSONAL web page or in a PERSONAL blog. I would be more understanding if your posts were on the church’s website. Furthermore, aren’t we called to be prophetic. Post 9-11 I preached some sermons that questioned the primacy of patriotism in our churches. This offended many, but it was my experience that we were far more eager to sing, “God Bless America” than “Great Is Thy Faithfulness.” My prayers continue to be with you. Being “fired” is traumatic. “Divorce” is traumatic as well.

thanks for filling in some of the blanks. Hard to imagine the journey you’ve been thrust into. Making sense of it will require those morning prayer coffees.
blessings

Chad,

May God surround you as you go through this time. I am on Deacon track at Iliff and a member of a congregation whose political views often win out over their Christian views; I have been in these charge conferences and watched as faithful Christians with a very different understanding than mine attempt to derail, set up and completely take information out of context in order to get what they want.

I am afraid that your previous congregation has now gained a reputation they probably don’t want. Actions sometimes have consequences unforeseen to those who do not look.

Remember, it was Jesus who said that a prophet is respected everywhere but his hometown. Those are words I live by when the rejections come. The Gospel (if you get past the few often quoted passages from John) may not interest people given those words in John, but the teachings matter.

A lot.

God be with you.

I admire the high level of maturity in which you are dealing with this painful and difficult experience. It would be a lot easier to go on the offensive, to attack and slander and be bitter…but instead you are reacting with grace and discernment. That’s a beautiful thing. ~blessings

Having read your piece, I truly have nothing worthy to add. I so admire your courage and faith and understand that there are so many of us that stand behind you in whatever path you and your lovely family take. We are ready to help with whatever your needs be.

i will admit to being guilty on calling out the umc on this – as an ex-umc pastor i have seen behind the curtain. your grace on this has been a voice we can all hear – and remember. thanks for being you.

Chad,
I’m a friend of Mark Hannah and a presbyterian pastor for 30 years. You have inspired me with your pastoral caring, you sensitivity and integrity. The church is as broken as the rest of the world. But with leaders like you we’ll be OK, as the Spirit continues to stir holy unrest, inspiring us all to be better than we are. Blessings

Chad,

This is a measured, gracious, and well-thought out post. Thank you for sharing it. My prayers will continue to be with you and your family during this time of transition in your life. And may God the Holy Spirit lead you in ministry and in life as you go forward.

Grace & peace,
Andrew

Of all the websites and blogs I have read over the years, The Methodist seems, to me anyway, to be the most reasonable Believers I have ever read from. I like how you described that you were ready to move forward, but the sheep weren’t and that’s ok. Love that!! It’s always ok to remain in one place o move on to another. This is what I have liked about some of the Methodist websites I have read. They offer freedom.

As a Seventh-day Adventist, I’ve never believed in eternal burning hell or such a vindictive God as hell seems to portray. (I realize much has been written to put a finer face on it, but none of that has been very convincing to me). Even among Adventists, however, the idea of God punishing people (just not for eternity) has persisted, especially the more fundamentalist among us, and the idea of “justice is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord” is a source of comfort to those who wish revenge on their enemies (i.e., one of those things you lost when you lost hell).

In that context, I came to greatly appreciate the thoughts of a fine SDA theologian who sadly died recently, but who shared widely his views on the loving character of God. A great introduction to his work is a book he prepared for the general reader entitled, “Servants or Friends?” It is now available as a free PDF download from: http://www.pineknoll.org/graham/sof/ This book made Maxwell quite unpopular among those who wanted to keep a vengeful God, but it is a great book, in my opinion, and I think you’d enjoy the quick read. If you make it back to Cleveland, TN, you might enjoy connecting with a Dr. Tim Jennings who practices in the Chattanooga and Dalton areas.

All the best!

Well said, Chad. Thanks for your clarity of thought!

I admire the gracious way you have handled this unpleasant situation. In 50+ years of ministry, I’ve been there a few times, myself.
You have rightly captured the image of a divorce. A divorce, like a marriage, takes two to make it happen. The trick is to learn the right things.
It sounds as if you are on the right track.
Finally – I have learned, over and over, that God has to close one door before another can be opened. We can never see what God has ahead. We can only look back and realize the grace of God working in ways sometimes quite painful. You are living in the grace of God. Keep that thought before you.

You are displaying a lot of grace and maturity but I have to say, this makes the congregational powers that be and the official denominational spokemen look ridiculous. They don’t deal with the issue you raised, they don’t deal with the idea that ther was a “deal” that you couldn’t post controversial topics. No, they remind us, as if we UM’s don’t know, that “there is a rule in the Discipline.” Well, duh!
One day this will look laughable but unfortunately, right now, the joke’s on us.

I am stunned at how blown up this has gotten – I heard about it when it first happened – and I commend you for passing up the “opportunity” to be a media darling.

[...] By now most of you know about the incident with former student local pastor and Duke Divinity student Chad Holtz and so I will spare you the rundown. However if you need a primer in what happen see here and here. [...]

Sometimes a Pastor and a Congregation is just not a good fit. That doesn’t mean there’s a problem or a scandal, just that the parties are on two different tracks. Sort of like St. Peter working better with Gentiles, than St. Paul (or do I have that backwards?! You get the point!) I don’t think less of the UMC or that particular congregation and suggest it’s probably a blessing. Besides, isn’t that the purpose of a student pastorate?

What a beautiful response to what has been an ugly and totally unnecessary public scene. Thank you for your integrity and your dignity! You are a credit to The United Methodist Church!

Welcome to the “other side”. After years of becoming proficient in the languages and being torn between the reality of Christ and the pain of seeing the overwhelming ignorance of Him demonstrated from the pulpit, I eventually became convinced of Christian Universalism. Since then, I am “divorced” from Churchianity (organized religion) in all its forms. No man stands between me and the Father but the Man Jesus Christ — no one else. If a worker is worthy of his hire and a good one worthy of double then a poor one is worthy of nothing. And the pulpits are full of poor workers crowding out those wanting to come to the pool of Christ to be healed.

Thank you for your vulnerability, honesty, and the desire to keep God at the center of this time while others try to make it political. You have been a blessing to this tired priest and a reminder that in times of disagreement it is still Jesus’ church. If you should find yourself in this part of TN, I would love to share a cup of coffee with you.

May you know the peace that passes understanding in the days to come.

[...] the United Methodist News Service has done a story on the Chad Holtz brouhaha. Chad also posted his own follow-up, where he seems somewhat surprised about how blown up the whole incident has [...]

Chad,

Thank you so much for this peaceful response, and for reminding a lot of us how quickly the expression of our public personae can expand. I noted that you “liked” a comment I made to Holston Conference’s posting of the MSNBC article, and I think you’ve quite clearly laid out here how presumptive I was in that comment. I hope you and Rev. Southern will forgive me, and I covenant to keep you and your family in my prayers as the press-storm rolls in or rolls through.

Peace in Christ,
Brandon Berg

One of the things I love about the Methodist church is the fact that it has a wide variety of thought about theological issues. We have an opportunity to dialog and share ideas. All roads lead back to God. When we want others to believe as we do we keep ourselves from discovering what more is within. It is only by questioning that we arrive at answers that satisfy our soul’s longing for God. We approach God as individual beings not en mass. Blessings for a journey into the greater unknown. It is so worth it..

Very well said, Chad! Your take on this is commendable. I think that one of the reasons that commercially produced soap operas are disappearing rapidly from the airwaves is that we don’t need them anymore because we have turned our news cycles into soap operas – for free. Thanks for resisting the temptation to jump on that bandwagon. Looking forward to hearing more from you in the future,

“The irony in all this is that many of the people applauding me for taking a stand for “Love Wins” end up being the people who are the most judgmental towards those they perceive to be less enlightened. In such cases, No One Wins.”

Thanks for the words. Blessings.

[...] Holtz follows up with his own update here. [...]

As a retired pastor, I have come to take comfort from the book of Genesis: an ongoing story of dysfunctional families who, nevertheless, become instruments of God’s work in human development.

I found these words to be powerful and important. Good perspective!

“A good shepherd doesn’t make his or her sheep jump the Jordan River when they haven’t had enough time to graze by the waters to get their strength. A good shepherd knows his or her sheep well enough to know what kind of food they can stomach. So this was less a firing and more a divorce. My flock knew that I couldn’t take them where they were ready to go and I knew I could no longer feed them effectively if I hung around. The decision that I move on was painful for all parties involved.”

Looking at this portion of the situation is important for all in leadership, and in relationships. How do we live this out better? Both shepherd and sheep?

May dialogues that lead to growth and change come from all of this,

debra dickerson
hixson, TN

Seeing how you are doing makes me feel good. I am not into theological debate but I do know that there is something wrong with thinking that no one pleases God but the people in my little bunker. Thank you for being able to see that and yet not to feel superior to those who don’t.

God bless you and your family. I’ve struggled with the concept of an eternal Hell for many years. I think even some of the early Church Fathers wrestled with this conflict. This even appears in the apocryphal ‘Apocalypse of Peter’ where an angel reveals that at some point of justice served all are forgiven. I intend to read ‘Love Wins’, study it in context with scripture, and draw my own conclusions. Go with God and He will guide you.

Chad,

Please visit the website and see that you are not alone. Dr. Bruggeman has been teaching the message that Rob Bell writes about for many years. I know he would be pleased to hear from you. He is in Asheville. If you want to contact me, feel free. I admire your courage.

Kevin

Congratulations my friend, you’ve just made the first step in the leap from religion and towards Christianity–believing the word of God over a religion, church, demonination, etc. Remember 1 Corinthians 1:10. The only way we can speak the same thing is if we speak what’s in the word of God, not traditions of men. Go get em!

Thank you so much for your post, honesty, commitment, compassion, etc.

I’m honored to have you as a part of our connection in the UMC.

Chad,

I read about your situation in the Akron Beacon-Journal this morning. I am a UM pastor myself; and got into a similar scrape about a year into my first appointment. Thankfully, the congregation and I were able to work it through, and my ministry there continued. I moved about a year later, to a congregation that was a “better fit,” as we say; though I had my angry detractors there, too. I have questioned traditional notions of hell for years, but I have always numbered myself among the hated Liberals, so it was easy for people just to write me off. But taking a position like this never fails to bring confrontation. I admire your refusal to turn this into an “us-vs.-them” thing; that is the way to go. It is a testimony to the vastness of our tradition that there are so many different ways in, and so many different possible ways of seeing things. All the best to you as you move on.

Regarding: Tony Simoncini on March 25th, 2011 2:47 pm
I could not read this statement with out responding and hopefully anyone who reads this will be truely seeking for What God has told us about Heaven and Hell and not just trying to extract texts to support own theory. This is what I read and was troubled by the statement regarding ‘ little information on the subject of heaven and hell in the Bible.’

Tony Simoncini’s words as follows:

“As for the heaven vs. hell thing… I think its really important to keep something Bell has said in perspective… maybe traditions held by most evangelicals about heaven and hell are worth raising questions over, and maybe things need to be re-worded in our evangelism hand books…> BUT the main thing to remember about all of this stuff in regards to Hell and what happens when we die… the best we all have is speculation based on small amounts of biblical evidence.<

Speculation? Seriously? God's word is not just speculation.
The only reason people think that the Bible doesn't say much about the subject is that most people are hand picking verses to support how they can only imagine with human understanding which is very limiting. The Bible is full of insights to God's plan for when we die. In fact it is the thread that runs through the whole Bible.
Without really digging we tend to pull out a statement or two such as ''eyes have not seen nor ears heard….etc''… however there are so many insights and understanding to the certain outcome of God's plan and things that must be regarding eternity including eternal hell. For if that is really not what the Bible meant when talking about eternal hell, then perhaps if you follow through with that theroy, then we really don't have eternal life. To lessen the fate of sin by saying God is a loving God and wouldn't do that, reduces the need and the importance of why Jesus paid the price for us. It lessens the value of His gift,
In the book "HEAVEN" by Randy Alcorn, [Minister in" Eternal Perspecitve Ministries] , you will see how much is really written in the Bible about this topic as he does't just hand pick texts to match his beliefs but instead weighs every thing that Jesus says within the context of why he said it and how everything fits as he methodically relates biblical traditions to that current understanding of those times. You will be surprised and have a clearer understanding of confusing scriptures because it will all start making sense and as I found a new understanding of how Great God's plan is and the cost of every soul. Here on earth we live in the knowlege of Good and Evil. With out God's protection and spiritual forces, we would not know what Good is, this includes just waking up in the morning to light and the air we breath and the flowers, nature and love we know for one another. These are all part of the good….or God with us. And the evil we see and know too well, is everywhere as well. Wars, natural disasters, disease, horrific deaths, destruction, hate, fear, and every counterfeit satan puts out there against the good.
And one of the statements Randy Alcorn made is that for those who reject His grace and exsistance, this is the closest thing they will ever know to heaven, yet to those who are in the book of life by faith, this is the closest to Hell we will know.
So as we choose one or the other, we find that the consequences are just as extreme….forever. Hell is the absence of God who is author of all Good. When we are born, we are born to be eternal souls, either eternal death or life.
A gentle reminder that we are held accountable to God for what we teach others. So we must think carefully what we say when we rush to the keyboard and throw out our comments and arguments. To discuss the judgement of any one persons unrighteous act is acting as God who is the only one judge . He alone knows each persons heart, His Love is great and Mercies enduring however He makes it known that we are to decide this day who we will serve, not just choose sides, but he says "who we will serve"…fruits of the spirit, if the vine is dead and unfruitful, He will cut it off, but He is the judge of all things. If he judges unto eternal salvation, then He judges unto eternal hell.
I appologize for running on so, but it is so important to help others find God's Grace and ignore much of the political correctness, avoid softening the outcome of sin.
If you are without God for eternity, that is eternal Hell.
Eternal perspective ministries has a website just put it into your search engine. And read the Book "Heaven' you will not regret it. Jill

Hi, I would l like to comment Regarding:
Tony Simoncini on March 25th, 2011 2:47 pm
I could not read this statement with out responding and hopefully anyone who reads this will be truely seeking for What God has told us about Heaven and Hell and not just trying to extract texts to support own theory. This is what I read and was troubled by the statement regarding ‘ little information on the subject of heaven and hell in the Bible.’

Tony Simoncini’s words as follows:

“As for the heaven vs. hell thing… I think its really important to keep something Bell has said in perspective… maybe traditions held by most evangelicals about heaven and hell are worth raising questions over, and maybe things need to be re-worded in our evangelism hand books…> BUT the main thing to remember about all of this stuff in regards to Hell and what happens when we die… the best we all have is speculation based on small amounts of biblical evidence.<

Speculation? Seriously? God's word is not just speculation.
The only reason people think that the Bible doesn't say much about the subject is that most people are hand picking verses to support how they can only imagine with human understanding which is very limiting. The Bible is full of insights to God's plan for when we die. In fact it is the thread that runs through the whole Bible.
Without really digging we tend to pull out a statement or two such as ''eyes have not seen nor ears heard….etc''… however there are so many insights and understanding to the certain outcome of God's plan and things that must be regarding eternity including eternal hell. For if that is really not what the Bible meant when talking about eternal hell, then perhaps if you follow through with that theroy, then we really don't have eternal life. To lessen the fate of sin by saying God is a loving God and wouldn't do that, reduces the need and the importance of why Jesus paid the price for us. It lessens the value of His gift,
In the book "HEAVEN" by Randy Alcorn, [Minister in" Eternal Perspecitve Ministries] , you will see how much is really written in the Bible about this topic as he does't just hand pick texts to match his beliefs but instead weighs every thing that Jesus says within the context of why he said it and how everything fits as he methodically relates biblical traditions to that current understanding of those times. You will be surprised and have a clearer understanding of confusing scriptures because it will all start making sense and as I found a new understanding of how Great God's plan is and the cost of every soul. Here on earth we live in the knowlege of Good and Evil. With out God's protection and spiritual forces, we would not know what Good is, this includes just waking up in the morning to light and the air we breath and the flowers, nature and love we know for one another. These are all part of the good….or God with us. And the evil we see and know too well, is everywhere as well. Wars, natural disasters, disease, horrific deaths, destruction, hate, fear, and every counterfeit satan puts out there against the good.
And one of the statements Randy Alcorn made is that for those who reject His grace and exsistance, this is the closest thing they will ever know to heaven, yet to those who are in the book of life by faith, this is the closest to Hell we will know.
So as we choose one or the other, we find that the consequences are just as extreme….forever. Hell is the absence of God who is author of all Good. When we are born, we are born to be eternal souls, either eternal death or life.
A gentle reminder that we are held accountable to God for what we teach others. So we must think carefully what we say when we rush to the keyboard and throw out our comments and arguments. To discuss the judgement of any one persons unrighteous act is acting as God who is the only one judge . He alone knows each persons heart, His Love is great and Mercies enduring however He makes it known that we are to decide this day who we will serve, not just choose sides, but he says "who we will serve"…fruits of the spirit, if the vine is dead and unfruitful, He will cut it off, but He is the judge of all things. If he judges unto eternal salvation, then He judges unto eternal hell.
I appologize for running on so, but it is so important to help others find God's Grace and ignore much of the political correctness, avoid softening the outcome of sin.
If you are without God for eternity, that is eternal Hell.
Eternal perspective ministries has a website just put it into your search engine. And read the Book "Heaven' you will not regret it. Jill

Great post! I think the title you chose is perfect. I think it’s sad they felt you should part ways, but sometimes there has to be a parting in order for both parties to grow in their faith. I just finished Bell’s book yesterday (read it in one day) and it definitely makes you think. Reading his book made me realize that for some of us it’s felt like we’ve been given/told only half the Gospel. Love Wins is like finding out the rest of the story to the Gospel and like you said it is Good News!

Jill,

I appreciate your words, but they only prove my point. You say hell is eternity without God, yet others by quoting scripture say that you would be a false teacher for not believing in a place of literal fire, torture, and torment.

I’m not offended by the word speculation… and it certainly isn’t meant to imply that the bible is not true. There are many theories out there as to what happens. Some think they will live in a mansion as they ride around the streets of gold… others believe in a new heaven and a new earth and life as God intended continues, and yet others reject both of these views… and ALL of these positions are based on scripture.

In my opinion, the truth will probably be in the middle and something tells me everyone will be a little surprised… even Randy Alcorn : )

And by the way, my view is not politically correct, nor is it meant to diminish the consequence of sin… I believe to only view heaven as a place we will end up some day is ignoring the consequence of humanity and our proclivity for sin than seeing heaven as a here now AND a not yet reality.

Peace
Tony

Hi Tony, I see where you are coming from and certainly we will all be surprised beyond our wildest imaginations or regrets. And I guess I didn’t make myself clear in that I do believe there will be fire and torment 0f some sort because that is what delights satan, but as a consequence of being cut off from God himself. I believe that hell is our default and that Christ horrific suffering and humiliation was also more than we can imagine. It bothers me that as a mere human of little comprehension of the big picture that it is impossible for us to completely appreciate or understand the totality of christs sacrifice and suffering. I am just glad and thankful that God understands that we are all struggling to understand to the best of our ability and with the help of His word and the Holy Spirit how mind boggling the plan of salvation is. Thus the mustard seed faith is enough for He wants us and is not willing that any perish. We can only know if it’s fullness when we see Him face to face. I agree with your last statement of political correctness in that I really was not referring that part to you, but rather in general. sorry for the missunderstanding. As far as Heaven, I don’t think calling it a middle ground reality is fitting as it is going to be way over the top. And in Randy Alcorn’s book “heaven,”
he has dug up and cross referenced and worth the read. no one knows exaclty but if you haven’t read his book, I recommend it. And as a final note, He doesn’t claim to have all the answers but he makes alot of sense as you follow along where he backs it all up biblically.
well I am falling asleep as I type..continue in His work. Stay on your path and continue to share, as this is how we grow, in engaging in conversations and bouncing things back and forth among other christians.
Thanks for your reply….God bless, Jill

You’re an excellent writer! I’m so glad you wrote this; I sent a copy of the original story the AP wrote to my pastor and he told me I should read this. It makes me much better about life in general *grin* I’d take up too much space if I wrote everything I wanted to, so I’ll just say be blessed on your journey!

[...] I wrote this, Chad Holtz has posted on his blog a report of how everything went down.  In it, he tells us he was not fired, that his leaving was a mutual decision between himself and [...]

Chad, I am so glad that you wrote the post above. It does sound like God is using this in a mighty way.

I want to share a resource with you, for you and for some of your responders who share going through similar difficulties. From what you wrote, you may not need this resource, but others may. Ministering to Ministers Foundation (www.mtmfoundation.org) offers 5-day retreats for ministers and spouses who have been wounded in the course of congregational conflict. I did my seminary internship and worked with Ministering to Ministers, (being a fourth generation preacher’s kid and having gone through two forced terminations myself) and I have seen much healing begin and happen through this very needed ministry. The email address is mtmfoundation@verizon.net. I hope you will post this somewhere on your blog if you feel so led, so that this information is available for those who identify with what you have been going through.

[...] late the controversies stirred by Rob Bell’s book and Chad Holtz’s dismissal have made me think about universal salvation more than usual. While my view on this subject has [...]

Chad:

Listened in on the gospelrevolution.com webcast from this last Wednesday. Superb – brother! It encourages my heart to hear of another beautiful human coming to the revelation of God’s full embrace of the planet. I too was marginalized out of the church because of my understanding of the complete unconditional love of God. Keep strong. There’s many of us out here that need to hear your wisdom and experience and be encouraged. . . . Keep in touch with Glenn & Mike!

[...] just knocks me out and makes me proud to be her father.  Another excellent response comes from Chad Holtz, the Duke student whose blogging and Facebook posts wound up costing him his job as a pastor.  On [...]